Posts by Half banana

29

Governing Body went from anonymous secret group to T.V Stars??? How?

by Witness 007 in

when i grew up in the 1980's -90's it was rare to see a faithful slaves picture in 10 years of watchtowers.

everything was anonymous.

no one really knew there names except for the "holy oricle" fred franz.. now they are full on t.v stars with there own show.

Half banana

I agree with your points DD.

There is a sense of hubris in which the members of the governing body view their appointment for office. A privilege they think... but it is also a poisoned chalice.

The first and overriding need at the start of the new century was to fix an enormous patch on the gaping wound inflicted by Fred Franz’s colossal error of the “1914-generation”.

The way they attempted it was by getting the most affable and least assertive GB member Jack Barr to sell his soul to the devil and contrive an excuse. Using tried and tested Watchtower brand logic, he said to the long suffering and gullible masses that when Jesus used the word generation he “evidently” meant overlapping generations. (pause for vomit)

This implausible claptrap has set the tone for the post 2000 GB. The Watchtower looked stale and backward. The glorious information revolution was under way and the Tower was under threat. This threat has in fact increased the pressure on the GB by exposing their dirty washing in public. For example their gross hypocrisy in denouncing the UN organization and secretly joining it. Another internet exposure is their total incapacity for a humane response to the children sexually abused in their midst.

A rebranding was advised and carried through to forget the ugly, sterile and antique Watchtower logo and replace it with” JW org” on a heavenly blue background. (As the RC Church uses for its prime icon Mary). Perhaps with a new logo and flashy TV channel, the JW punters would be distracted away from the 1914 blunder and be seduced by the GB on the small screen?

Forget Fred Franz and his intellectual garbage; dumb it down so that the most uneducated third world peasant can understand. The West and its sophistication have had enough of Watchtower prattle...the developing world is the new target area.

The touchstone for success under GB2.0 is now that of loyalty to the GB. Sins can always be forgiven but NOT disloyalty to the seven baboons of Brooklyn.

The public appearance of the GB on the JWTV extravaganza must have been seen as a public relations attempt to get the flock to be more familiar with HQ. However, they present as either oddballs or inept. I would imagine their PR advisers now think differently and must withdraw them offstage to redeem themselves away from the TV spotlights.

Hubris is always answered by the Gods...

31

Question for those still attending the Kingdom Hall

by ToesUp in

jw
friends

this a question more out of curiosity, because we have not stepped foot in a kh in 3 years.. how is the attendance at the meetings/assemblies?

i know the answer will vary due to location.. are you (especially elders) receiving any notification or communication from bethel or co's that there is an upsurge of people that are simply disappearing or out right dis associating?.

thanks, in advance, for your feedback!

Half banana

This is very encouraging!

23

Interesting article about the evidence of the Jewish Exodus

by cappytan in

jw
friends

the reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews were ever enslaved in egypt.

yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source.

i'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources.

Half banana

Oppostate, your recording is playing fast and loose with facts and what purport to be facts.

The primary assumption and fault here is that the author considers the Bible to be a historical record. The mention of Bible characters does not mean they existed. I bridled at the interviewee actually saying that a thing written in stone must be true! This evinces his shallow thinking. He also believes that Bible scholars are an academic fount of knowledge. He is wrong in this, the evidence for ancient history must be the work of historians who are aware of the textual evidence and the archaeology. He confusingly condemns academic scholars with the Bible "scholars". He also quotes (in the Biblical manner) the names of people and events such as the exodus as if they were real.

His main fault is taking the Bible as the standard text and in the manner of archaeology up to the 1950's and 60's... he is trying to establish evidence for those events. He admits he looks at the Bible this way albeit not religious himself.

Two things in his favour: the later dates for the pre-Classical world Egyptian history would relate well with the lateness of Bible writing, not the long historical depth normally implied. Second, his chronology does not challenge the historical period after 664 BCE (the burning of Thebes). I.e. the JW 607 BCE is still wrong.

Nevertheless he projects the Indiana Jones approach to archaeology and not the boring but more evidence based academic one.

23

Interesting article about the evidence of the Jewish Exodus

by cappytan in

jw
friends

the reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews were ever enslaved in egypt.

yes, there's the story contained within the bible itself, but that's not a remotely historically admissible source.

i'm talking about real proof; archeological evidence, state records and primary sources.

Half banana

The Bible is a mess; it is full of contradictions and it contains epic narratives built merely on shaky rumours yet it is claimed to be divine truth.

Much better to look at the ancient texts of the Israelite's much more organized and powerful neighbours who made meticulous records and actually controlled the land of Israel.

The Exodus is not recorded by them and it most certainly would have been if it had occurred.

The Israelites were mainly a poor and subjugated people given to inordinate exaggeration with a desperate will to achieve worldly ambition.

Don't believe the Bible...it will only leave you confused if you do.

4

MEMORIAL - Should JWs be commemorating the memorial of Christ's death?

by deegee in

1corinthians 11:25-26:“in the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “this cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” for whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the lord’s death until he comes.” (emphasis mine).

the jws teach that jesus christ returned in 1914 when his kingdom officially took power and he began active rulership toward all the world.

so the jws should have ceased commemorating the memorial of christ’s death since according to their theology, jesus returned in 1914.. http://mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/1914.html.

Half banana

A very good point deegee. Sorry, but I have to point out that your post smacks of thinking for yourself.

What must be done at all cost is to stamp out this this dangerous practice of rational thought.

You must wear a blindfold and ear-plugs and just believe in the seven baboons of Brooklyn...

22

I no longer feel smart as a JW, I feel dumb...

by thedepressedsoul in

i don't want anyone to take this the wrong way but i use to at least feel smart as a jw.

when i went to thursday night meetings, i at least felt like i was a student, that i was learning how to speak publicly, i could prepare my own comments, i could answer points that i learned from the weekly bible reading.

i even feel like an "idiot" studying for the meetings.

Half banana

I like your comments depressedsoul

The Watchtower has gotten even worse. I'm not even sure the point of it anymore.

It does seem to be functionally pointless. Their one claim for existence was to announce 1874 as the invisible coming of Christ! If it was created to serve the God of the universe (as if he needed helpers) then the JW organization over their entire history have instead pitifully misled mankind.

It's more about gloating about the organization and doctrine, then actually teaching you something.

The fact they gloat over the achievements and doctrines which they consider significant, indicates the lack of any external acclaim, for no one outside thinks them to be worthwhile. And the shameful and offensive boasting which so characterizes the org today, indicates the insecurity and inadequacies of a fumbling leadership declining in influence.

All they know is blind dogma and indoctrination...archetypal blind guides is what they are.

20

Ok, just received my memorial invitation.

by Je.suis.oisif in

mornin' all.

saw the jdubs going from door to door just now.

uk time 10:15 am.

Half banana

Heaven, I like your idea of unrealistic excuses.

How about, "I can't come as I have no one to look after my pet wombat."

27

Chelmsford is an Asbestos Dump

by Slidin Fast in

the dubsters in the uk are being taken for such a ride.. on one side they have prime land and property to sell in north london worth many millions of uk pounds.. on the other they have bought a contaminated site used for years of illegal dumping.

one of the main contaminants is asbestos.

it will take volunteer labour months simply to remove the toxic material.

Half banana

It might be relevant to find out which type of asbestos is buried there, not all are as dangerous as blue asbestos. It seems a tradition for the WTBTS to build on toxic dumps. Very fitting I think.

BTW,

Chelmsford in the county of Essex (the land of the east Saxons) came to prominence as a Roman town called Caesaromagus. (Ceaser's market)

The word 'temple' in English place-names often refers to the presence of a Roman temple, the remains of which being found on the site. And this is the case here, where an octagonal Romano-Celtic temple once stood in late Roman times.

20

What is the motivation behind the JW org?

by Half banana in

the gb has recently said that the brothers are generously contributing lots of money (at gunpoint it seems!

) so why with a billion dollar annual income do they demand more cash?

they have staunched the outward flow of money on paid preachers, zone overseers and bethel expenses and stalled the promised worldwide luxury buildings projects..

Half banana

The GB has recently said that the brothers are generously contributing lots of money (at gunpoint it seems!) so why with a billion Dollar annual income do they demand more cash?

They have staunched the outward flow of money on paid preachers, zone overseers and Bethel expenses and stalled the promised worldwide luxury buildings projects.

As an ORGANIZED RELIGION i.e. hierarchical, (Rutherford rotates in his grave) they now own all the JW buildings world-wide as well, to the tune of probably another billion or two, so why the blatant Watchtower money grabbing?

They have so kindly released the brothers from all their mortgages... how very Christian!

The consequence of this is that now all congregations instead of having the secure knowledge of paying off a debt, as in a mortgage, are now being made to pay a tribute in perpetuity the cost of a KH mortgage payment for a building which they probably made at their private expense and effort and yet will never legally own.

This a monumental scam worthy of the mind of Mr Ponzi

Are they just greedy? Perhaps more to the point; who is the "they"?

Is any other party interested in the financial success of the WTBTS (or whatever business names it may be registered in)? Is it their bankers... or are there others investing in this religious corporation?

8

Disconfirmed expectations

by Doug Mason in

the person may have prepared himself psychologically for an event that never eventuates, and, worse still, may have even made public his predictions about the event.

what happens when an important prophecy fails and dissonance is aroused between what was predicted and what actually occurred is described in the classic field study carried out by festinger, riecken and schachter (1956).

in the mid-1950s mrs marion keech, a suburban housewife, began to receive messages from outer space.

Half banana

You can lead JW's to Facts, but you cannot make them think !

Too true Phizzy.

Just a thought as a corollary to your excellent post Doug. You show how prophetic disappointment is no barrier to the continuation of the cult. I love your case of Thomas Beverly who promised the world to end in 1697 and afterward claimed it had ended... An interesting and blunt strategy to cope with the cognitive dissonance.

I think the adventist (small ‘a’) hopes become irrationally fixated in the individual and the trade-off is the sense of enjoying a religious certainty in an unpredictable life. Forget common sense... Glory Allelluia!

The same total denial of failure as with Beverly, was the Watchtower’s foundational statement by CT Russell in 1879 in defence of the failure of the Adventist (big A) expectation of 1874. It did happen after all, he said ...but invisibly! (Pull the other leg.)

These are the very pathetic and insubstantial foundations on which the Watchtower corporate edifice was built.

I would like to highlight a reason why the believers might remain in view of the dissonance caused by failure: I would say it is “group loyalty”.

Cult leadership recognizes from experience that the individual human psyche is strongly motivated to fulfill its social obligations to its chosen group. What the JW org offers even though it rarely if ever spells it out, is not just the fantasy hope of paradise but a ”personal identity,” a meaningful sense of self within a religious community. You support the group and they support you. Loyalty and group identity.

For the believer, group loyalty means believing that you have a role to play, you are not a drifting non-entity... you can become a respected member with lots of like minded buddies. This can even compensate for the lack of love you may have experienced in an abusive family, the believer gets a new bunch of brothers and sisters and even new and rather strict parents in the shape of the governing body telling you what to do.

This reward of identity counts more than the truthfulness or error which its leaderships claims because the unthinking pride of group loyalty. Because it is based on the psychological model of ”family,” it transcends all other considerations. So the periodic shock of prophetic failure by the JW org is buffered and mitigated by the more important sense of blind attachment to the social group. “We can ride it out together” is the logic defying spirit.

Of course if reason or research or even a recognition of self-worth were to enter the picture; former loyalties might evaporate.